Curse

The Drunkard · Oct 20, 2010, 05:32 AM // 05:32

So then people will require scrolls or ectos to get into the group, ectos will skyrocket and scrolls will jump to stone's price (3-5k is usually the price pugs pay).

Stones are such a big deal to pugs because there's literally no room for failure when doing the quests. Fail main team or LT at escort=wipe, fail t2 at slayer=wipe, fail t4 at 4h=wipe. People naturally want to win, so they are going to try and set limits in order to have the greatest chance of suceeding.

So in short, this suggestion does nothing to alleviate the real issue of 4+ permas and 2+ eles clearing the UW in an average 30+ run, while "balanced" ways (that don't depend on permas) get to deal with 1hr+ runs, while wasting tons of res scrolls if an Emo isn't bonding/tanking at dhuum.

/notsigned

chris12xu · Oct 20, 2010, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Again I really don't know where people are getting these times for uw obviously they don't pay much attention to the times uw are actually being done and they just pretend to know as I said before 45 min is a very fast time for a uw group to complete most are 1+ hour most groups dont even complete they fail on escort or something a balanced team has a better success rate than a speed clear team. I really dont get what the problem is they have already nerfed the shit out of uw and almost every skill involved in the speed clear builds to the point of almost uselessness. Im not quite sure what else you want them to do.

Also stones cannot be bought at a trader so they can only be obtained from completing uw if they got rid of the summoning stones i highly doubt that groups would be spamming "show scrolls" or "show ectos" since they can all be bought from a trader UW scrolls even drop from bosses in HM a raptor farmer can get a bunch of scrolls if he really wanted to. Stone are a good way to get a feel of how many times a person has completed uw and how familiar they are with the area. Sometimes they are a false indicator since people do buy them but generally they work well for determining how much experienced a player has though it says nothing about the skill level of the player.

HigherMinion · Oct 21, 2010, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris12xu

Again I really don't know where people are getting these times for uw obviously they don't pay much attention to the times uw are actually being done and they just pretend to know as I said before 45 min is a very fast time for a uw group to complete most are 1+ hour most groups dont even complete they fail on escort or something a balanced team has a better success rate than a speed clear team. I really dont get what the problem is they have already nerfed the shit out of uw and almost every skill involved in the speed clear builds to the point of almost uselessness. Im not quite sure what else you want them to do.

Also stones cannot be bought at a trader so they can only be obtained from completing uw if they got rid of the summoning stones i highly doubt that groups would be spamming "show scrolls" or "show ectos" since they can all be bought from a trader UW scrolls even drop from bosses in HM a raptor farmer can get a bunch of scrolls if he really wanted to. Stone are a good way to get a feel of how many times a person has completed uw and how familiar they are with the area. Sometimes they are a false indicator since people do buy them but generally they work well for determining how much experienced a player has though it says nothing about the skill level of the player.

It's already too convenient for you that people buy these stones just to play with you. 4k kthxbai. And they still fail. I've done UW countless times Physway. I have a ton of stones. Can I enter Terraway? Probably. Will I succeed? RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO no.

MithranArkanere · Oct 21, 2010, 12:35 AM // 00:35

They asked you to show some stones to let you in?
Isn't that a bit stupid? Any guy that has only farmed vaettir could buy some of those to show them.

Take the stones, and they'll find some other stupid requirement that can be faked too.

In the end, no matter how many silly questions you ask before going down there, all that counts is what you can done in the area.

chris12xu · Oct 21, 2010, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

It's already too convenient for you that people buy these stones just to play with you. 4k kthxbai. And they still fail. I've done UW countless times Physway. I have a ton of stones. Can I enter Terraway? Probably. Will I succeed? RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO no.

never sold a single stone lol why would I do that I use them. Im not saying that making people show stones is fool proof becuase its far from it. people could of emo'ed 100 runs get 200 stones and then join as mtns/pools with those stones and fail hardcore they really are not for the skill of a player the whole reason was to show how much you knew about uw after the skele nerf a year ago so people didnt join into uw groups thinking it was the same and have no idea what they were doing. obviously a lot has changed since then someone with a lot of dayway exp can have a couple hundred stones but know nothing about the new forms of uwsc, but they will still have some general uw knowledge instead of getting a person that has never been in uw before and just grabbed the build off of pvx. In any event removing the stones from the game is hardly the solution to the problem that someone is mad they cant get into pug uw groups. If you want to go and do uw so badly then join an uw guild. its just like trying to do something like HA without a rank no group is gonna take you so you get into a guild that does HA and learn it first.

Dobermann · Oct 21, 2010, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris12xu

Dont know who told you that but there has only ever been one 20 min run after the dhuum update that is the fastest that dhuum has ever been killed. UWSC takes about 40-60 min whoever told you 20 min was normal was pulling your leg or you just made it up. Try to actually know about something before you post about it plz.

On topic you usually get 2 stones from the uw chest 50 stones is usually the requirement meaning 25 completed runs there are even a good number of groups that only ask for 20 stones meaning 10 runs and there are also groups on top of that who don't ask for them at all. It is not hard to complete 10 uw runs I have a ton of them and I use them all the time I am hardly concerned with saving them to get into pug groups since they are so easy to get. And on top of all that dream riders are awesome summons they make everything so much easier.

My guild (Lod) often do 1 cons uw runs so yeah... Theyre quicker than most OLD uwsc pug teams

chris12xu · Oct 22, 2010, 05:56 AM // 05:56

I believe that lod's record was 28 min done a couple times by lod's core uw team and I know as a fact from your members and being in your runs that they are not "often" under 30 min due to the loss of a lot of lod's core uw team members. Furthermore most old pug uwsc teams were 20-15 min and guild groups were 7-15 usually so 28 is by no means faster than the old uwsc.

diabiosx · Oct 28, 2010, 11:31 PM // 23:31

I personaly dont find anything wrong with ghastly stone(GS) requirements. First they let the players know what to expect from a group. You don't need GS to join a UWsc. You can easily join a 0stone req group and u will generally not ever get to dhuum. With GS req groups the group generally have a higher sucess rate. This format gives the PUGGers confidence in the groups and know what to expect out from the ones they join. Now why be pissed about people limiting you from joining their groups?? You cant be a doctor without a M.D. You cant join certain groups without GStones.
I say /sign to make GS unbuyable.

WarcryOfTruth · Oct 29, 2010, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabiosx

I personaly dont find anything wrong with ghastly stone(GS) requirements. First they let the players know what to expect from a group. You don't need GS to join a UWsc. You can easily join a 0stone req group and u will generally not ever get to dhuum. With GS req groups the group generally have a higher sucess rate. This format gives the PUGGers confidence in the groups and know what to expect out from the ones they join. Now why be pissed about people limiting you from joining their groups?? You cant be a doctor without a M.D. You cant join certain groups without GStones.
I say /sign to make GS unbuyable.

This is absolutely stupid. Essentially what you're saying, is, even though I have never done a UWSC, pre-Dhuum or post-Dhuum, and you're saying that with a requirement in place, if I simply have 50 stones from normal clears I am suddenly experienced enough to do UWSCs. Making them untradeable is stupid, because they are summoning stones just like the other types.

Comparing being a doctor to joining a group in Guild Wars... never heard that before. "Certain groups" makes me think that you're saying you can be a doctor in certain fields without an M.D. And you can't, this is a ridiculous argument.

Anyway, making them untradeable or undroppable is dumb, because I carry my stones with me and if my Dream Rider dies, I like to drop one so another can use. What should be done, is the idiots that require stones should just kill themselves so they can reincarnate into a piece of shit.

*sigh* /endrant, guess I'll go get my M.D in Speed Clearotomy so I can join the elitist douches...

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris12xu

I believe that lod's record was 28 min done a couple times by lod's core uw team and I know as a fact from your members and being in your runs that they are not "often" under 30 min due to the loss of a lot of lod's core uw team members. Furthermore most old pug uwsc teams were 20-15 min and guild groups were 7-15 usually so 28 is by no means faster than the old uwsc.

iirc the record is 20 minutes since the most recent nerf

pedrobds · Oct 29, 2010, 03:07 AM // 03:07

heres my take on the whole thing.

using stones as a way to get more experienced players on paper is perfect ie the more stones, the more completions. since you can sell and trade stones it does flaw this use, but nonetheless they are still summoning stones so that wont be changed. should people complain that groups require it? no, because if you are complaining that means that you are either

a) inexperienced
b) dont want to spend money on stones.

I understand that people use their stones, which is another flaw, but if you know that people are requiring that you have some, wouldn't you just stock up for a while? Is it a perfect system? no. is it the best way to avoid failers? yes. All in all, people that actually do uwsc seriously have a right to know if people they are grouping with are as experienced as they are? yes. Most likely nearly everyone complaining just isn't experienced and doesn't want to be in groups with people just like themselves.

Lanier · Oct 29, 2010, 04:30 AM // 04:30

It seems to me like another way to keep new people from entering the UWSC scene... which is a bad thing. Im all for anything that would limit the ways in which players can be descriminated against for grouping, though the core problem comes down to people's unwillingness to help new or inexperienced people gain experience.

chuckles79 · Oct 29, 2010, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Ladies and Gents, one of those elitists everyone gripes about.

Also the flaw of the stone system. Right now they want 20-25 stones. Just like R3 was good for HA after one year.
Soon it will be 50 stones and so forth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris12xu

Dont know who told you that but there has only ever been one 20 min run after the dhuum update that is the fastest that dhuum has ever been killed. UWSC takes about 40-60 min whoever told you 20 min was normal was pulling your leg or you just made it up. Try to actually know about something before you post about it plz.

On topic you usually get 2 stones from the uw chest 50 stones is usually the requirement meaning 25 completed runs there are even a good number of groups that only ask for 20 stones meaning 10 runs and there are also groups on top of that who don't ask for them at all. It is not hard to complete 10 uw runs I have a ton of them and I use them all the time I am hardly concerned with saving them to get into pug groups since they are so easy to get. And on top of all that dream riders are awesome summons they make everything so much easier.

chuckles79 · Oct 29, 2010, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Now UW has become to PvE what HA is to PvP.

All Anet had to really do, was to return the assassin to it's original intended mission, but they couldn't do it.

They added Ulcerous Lungs to Costume Brawl and anti-imba skills to the enemies in the Halloween Mausoleum quest; but heaven forbid anything is done to sins.

Seriously though, I understood SF when they first did it. Sins had been abused in PvE. They were bigger outcasts than dervishes. Monks would refuse to work with them because of shadowstepping. Good sins in PvE were hard to find.
Then they did SF, and it was a very nice "thank you for putting up with a crappy profession, here's how we say thank you".
But it kept going...and going...and going. Until everyone who was interested in farming had one.
So when the time came to finally nerf it...they couldn't. They'd alienate almost a third of the remaining GW devoted playerbase.

So we find ourselves a year after Dhuum got released, and the same people with even the same toons are still doing GWSCs.
The only diff. is that you can't get ran through it anymore.

For all my griping, I don't really have a beef with the status quo. I'm just saying that they should learn from this giant cluster$#@! and apply these lessons in GW2.
The second you let one class have access to even a limited "god mode" it's game over for balance and variety.

I did a PuG in the UW a week ago, not a sin in the group. We did get to Dhuum, but no one knew what to do at that point. Perhaps if more exp. players were like the warrior (obby tank) who organized the group, you could PuG and expect success. Then you wouldn't need stones or whatever "I have less of a social life than you" counted coup is in fashion this week.

Sarevok Thordin · Oct 29, 2010, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Douchebags will be douchbags looking for stones, and if it isn't that they'll find some other way to do it. At this stage in the game it's not worth the hassle really to implement another way to try and stop them.

And no, I'm personally not bothered about it myself because I have my UW monument already

Sirius Bsns · Oct 29, 2010, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

It seems to me like another way to keep new people from entering the UWSC scene... which is a bad thing. Im all for anything that would limit the ways in which players can be descriminated against for grouping, though the core problem comes down to people's unwillingness to help new or inexperienced people gain experience.

Or vice-versa, the new and/or inexperienced are sometimes too stubborn and unwilling to learn or change their bad ways and often cause elitists to be, well... elitists. I don't blame elitists for their attitudes, but I do condemn the way in which they manifest their frustration and rage [i.e.: discrimination]. I'm opposed to titular and established discrimination, and we all know it's what's dooming the game to eminent inactivity.

chris12xu · Oct 29, 2010, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarcryOfTruth

iirc the record is 20 minutes since the most recent nerf

umm.....I think I know since I was kinda in that run....

I cant even begin to explain how 20 min is so much lower than the average times and how hard it is to get 20 min and how much luck we needed to actually pull that off.

since you stated you dont do uwsc you should not say anything about the times of uwsc becuase you dont know anything about them. Im not saying your opinion on the whole "show stones" thing isnt valued but your facts are very off. UWSC is ran in different ways its not like it used to be there a couple different ways to run it, the most popular being terraway or T-way this is a relatively safe way to do uwsc however if give up speed for safety so a terraway run will always be rather long. Running terraway has a higher success rate but a slower speed. The way of doing uwsc that resulted in the 20 minute run was called DLway. DLway is a much faster but more dangerous way to run uwsc it needs much more skill and some more luck but it is much faster. DLway has a lower success rate but a higher speed therfore it is usually not ran by PuG groups becuase of the extremely high fail rate of PuG groups actually running it. Just becuase its done once doesnt mean its done all the time. and trust me I was on the team that did the 20 min run I actually know what im talking about when I say this stuff.

As far as the talk about the 28 min Lod runs I was referring to their guild record and the average time of their runs not the average time and record time of all uwsc runs.

Quote:

Ladies and Gents, one of those elitists everyone gripes about.

lol I am far from an elitist if I was I wouldnt spend most of my time in uw teaching others how to do uwsc, and I wouldnt make extensive guides on how to do uwsc. You have no idea who your talking to lol. I dont care how many stones people have if I did I wouldnt of run in team that have no requirement for them today. Failing a run doesnt really mean anything to me the only time I get mad about a fail is when its my own fault becuase I should know better. Don't go around saying things like "look at that elitist" unless you actually know me plz

I mean they are one of the easiest things to get in uw seriously why is it such a huge problem to get 20 stones like I said thats only 10 runs. I mean 10 runs doesnt make you experienced by any means Ive done thousands of runs and I still learn new stuff. Even 50 stones is very low 25 runs means you hardly know anything about uw. Besides the idea of show stones actually works, a 80+ groups is much less likely to fail then a +20 group. the whole show stones rule was put in place after the nerf to make sure that people have been in uw since skeles were added that why people wouldnt join a group and have no idea what to do once they got down there.

Also before stones the blacklist was huge and then everyone spamming in toa saying "so and so fails dont take them" I would much rather have a couple groups just say 20+ stones instead of a district full of people raging and trolling each other.

Warvic · Oct 29, 2010, 12:14 PM // 12:14

- Chris. He made a small mistake about the record times. You are the only one who is annoyed by that just because you are one of the few people who actually tries to get record times in speedclears. Nobody cares about the real records. Stay on topic.

- How can people not see how flawed the "stone" thing is. I could buy the stones now and join a group. I would fail and die. And just look in ToA how much people are buying the stones!

But it's prolly better then the blacklist stuff u talk about. :/

Sirius Bsns · Oct 29, 2010, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris12xu

Besides the idea of show stones actually works, a 80+ groups is much less likely to fail then a +20 group.

So if I go out and buy 80+ stones right now, show them to a group, and jump into it, we're much less likely to fail amirite? Not to say that I'd actually fail anyway, but it seems to me you're too reliant upon fallible proof.

Essence Snow · Oct 29, 2010, 03:07 PM // 15:07

I'm actually kind of surprised that a Stone Service hasn't popped up yet. "Loaning xx-xxx stones...pay xx...once traded back recieve xx-5k...get into any show stones group" It would really mock the whole concept.

The Drunkard · Oct 29, 2010, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris12xu

Again I really don't know where people are getting these times for uw obviously they don't pay much attention to the times uw are actually being done and they just pretend to know as I said before 45 min is a very fast time for a uw group to complete most are 1+ hour most groups dont even complete they fail on escort or something a balanced team has a better success rate than a speed clear team. I really dont get what the problem is they have already nerfed the shit out of uw and almost every skill involved in the speed clear builds to the point of almost uselessness. Im not quite sure what else you want them to do.

You might want to try rereading my statement; I mention 30+ min because coordinated tways or other builds can greatly fluxuate, but for the most part groups are going to have times of 30-50 min.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris12xu

Also stones cannot be bought at a trader so they can only be obtained from completing uw if they got rid of the summoning stones i highly doubt that groups would be spamming "show scrolls" or "show ectos" since they can all be bought from a trader UW scrolls even drop from bosses in HM a raptor farmer can get a bunch of scrolls if he really wanted to.

You cannot deny that if stones were to be removed that elitest pugs would require some form of "measurable" experience. If not stones, ecto, or scrolls, then it will be trophies, soul reapers, etc.